Cyberkilla

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Mon Jul 12 9:58:54 EDT 2021

Hello, I've just about implemented support for joining multiple raids. There are a couple of rough edges that I'm not entirely happy with, but I'm sure we can figure them out.



Currently:
  • Every player has their own maximum concurrent raids they can join. You start at 1.
    • You'll be able to upgrade it via the Upgrade Centre, though I haven't enabled this just yet.
  • Joining a raid costs 20 turns for now. It should have always cost turns, not sure why it was omitted.
    • The actual cost is subject to change though, and perhaps guild upgrades can reduce it.
  • Leaving a raid is free, but there's no refund. Again open to feedback on all of this.
  • Forming a raid costs turns, as always, but the amount scales with the chosen time limit.
    • These costs are definitely subject to change. At the moment, they're too low at one end, and too high at the other (smiley)

I'm very interested to get some feedback on the following points:
  • What time limits should we allow to Boss NPC and Guild raids? (note that they are different)
  • What sort of turn cost range is fair for:
    • Joining a raid (bear in mind we'll need to have room to reduce it with Upgrade Centre)
    • Starting a raid (see above)
  • Should we have a minimum time before manual start? (could be reduced via Upgrade Centre, and would be reduced in proportion to the number of guild members that join the raid. i.e., the more raiders, the faster you can raid. I believe this has been suggested a couple of times now by various people that feel like they're missing raids because people don't wait).
  • This one will be misconstrued, but many games have a daily cap on raids. It may be worth us adding one that can be upgraded via Upgrade Centre. I'd have to see what sort of numbers people are doing atm, as I obviously don't want to limit the upper bound, just make it something we have to unlock.
  • Does it make sense that I have max_concurrent_raids per player?
    • On one hand, makes players more sought after if they have high concurrent raids cap
    • On the other hand, feels like a guild upgrade. Let me know your thoughts.
  • What is the maximum concurrent raids a player should be able to join?
  • What is the maximum concurrent raids the guild itself should permit?
    • Currently, some guilds tend to form a tonne of raids and hope the members will get through them before they auto-start. Maybe it should require Upgrade Centre upgrades to become viable. Seems like an advanced technique rather than something a brand new guild should be capable of. Locking things behind upgrades might seem annoying, but it gives new people something to work towards.

We're also going to have Guild Levels that player growth contributes to. Probably irrelevant to the raiding mechanic, but if it ties in, great.

Invisible War ][
Edited 5 time(s). Last edited by Cyberkilla @ Mon Jul 12 11:00:35 EDT 2021

Jyreeil

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Mon Jul 12 10:34:59 EDT 2021

I think that having the bounds start lower/higher (depending on the context) and get higher/lower than current bounds is a good idea.  Like I suppose maybe a 10 minute raid could take 50 turns maybe less and then the 6+hour raids maybe cost 400 turns.  Not sure what you implemented so far, but I'll have a look at it when I'm done posting.

I like the idea of having the max raids/max raids joined upgraded higher, and I'm really not sure if those minmaxing things should be guild upgrades or player upgrades, maybe both?  

Also it seems like there should be multiple kinds of abilities that maybe minmaxes the raid times the max raids for a little bit the amount of concurrent raids for a bit.  

I'm also wondering, if you're worried about minimum amount of players in a raid, maybe have that be a facet of the raid creator.  Like, they choose the max time maybe min time for that matter, and also the minimum and maximum players in the raid.

Overall, I think there's a lot of opportunities to minmax everything between guild bought, and player specific with the upgrade centre, and skill modifiers.


DemonicJ

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Total Posts: 141
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Wed Jul 14 2:08:23 EDT 2021

Cost to start raids, join raids & concurrent raids should be alliance upgrade items.

The cost to start raids especially if you are doing longer ones (great when people live all around the planet!!) is ridiculous!

The ability to have raids days pretty much out the window now too!.

Should be a flat rate to start a raid (Why does it need choice in times??) using the old setup 300cr to start a raid (Raid will autolaunch after 6 hours, no time choice unless you launch earlier). Alliance upgrade centre can reduce the cost by 5% (example only). 6 upgrades allowed.

Now the other side of that why not alliance upgrades to shorten the refresh time after a NPC boss attack (& potentially normal NPC's). Its 18 hours currently (??) again, 6 upgrades in alliance upgrade centre each one reduce by an hour.

Make the upgrades items points & make it worthwhile to do, yet not too cheap (it should cost a bit)


***Added*** Raids earn an amount of EXP & Credits. Maybe based on how quickly its completed, how much of that reward they get??
Do it in 10 minutes = 100%
Do it in 30 minutes = 90%
60minutes = 80%
120 minutes = 70%
240 minutues = 60%
360 minutes (auto launch) = 50%


Edited 2 time(s). Last edited by DemonicJ @ Wed Jul 14 2:15:06 EDT 2021

Cyberkilla

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Wed Jul 14 9:34:58 EDT 2021

As I said in the original post, those turn costs are arbitrary and temporary. I just wanted the thing deployed. Today, I will try to find a better set of prices.

Having a time limit you can choose but a flat turn cost makes the selectable time limit pointless. As you said, there are two options:
  • Flat rate of 300 turns to form a raid, always 6 hrs, start sooner if you want, perhaps for a slight reward increase.
  • Tiered rates based on time limit, so fast, active guilds can get through a lot more raids and be more economical with the turns. I think it's fair, because if you're needing 6 hrs, you've already had 6 hours to replenish your turns by the time you do another raid (smiley)

At the moment, I prefer the latter because I feel like it introduces more strategy. You have to decide if you're going to make the deadline and budget accordingly.

The time limits and prices are bad at the moment though. I don't want it to be too cheap, there has to be a base cost. I also don't want the 6 hr choice to be punitive, it just shouldn't be as discounted.

I'll see what I can come up with. Also, with regards to a minimum time before you can manually start, I feel like that might be a good mechanic to encourage more guild member collaboration. Another thing to have a think about.

18 hour raid cooldown is to make raiding a Boss NPC something you only do once per day. I left 6 hours off it to give it a bit of a buffer, or if you raided at 1pm on Monday, you'd be 1:01 at soonest on Tuesday, and it would slowly drift forward in an irritating way.

Guild Upgrades will definitely be able to reduce all of these costs and cooldowns though, for sure.

Quote from DemonicJ
Cost to start raids, join raids & concurrent raids should be alliance upgrade items.

The cost to start raids especially if you are doing longer ones (great when people live all around the planet!!) is ridiculous!

The ability to have raids days pretty much out the window now too!.

Should be a flat rate to start a raid (Why does it need choice in times??) using the old setup 300cr to start a raid (Raid will autolaunch after 6 hours, no time choice unless you launch earlier). Alliance upgrade centre can reduce the cost by 5% (example only). 6 upgrades allowed.

Now the other side of that why not alliance upgrades to shorten the refresh time after a NPC boss attack (& potentially normal NPC's). Its 18 hours currently (??) again, 6 upgrades in alliance upgrade centre each one reduce by an hour.

Make the upgrades items points & make it worthwhile to do, yet not too cheap (it should cost a bit)


***Added*** Raids earn an amount of EXP & Credits. Maybe based on how quickly its completed, how much of that reward they get??
Do it in 10 minutes = 100%
Do it in 30 minutes = 90%
60minutes = 80%
120 minutes = 70%
240 minutues = 60%
360 minutes (auto launch) = 50%


Invisible War ][

DemonicJ

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Total Posts: 141
Online Status: Online
Wed Jul 14 20:56:59 EDT 2021

Fast active guilds can still burn through raids with a flat rate & timer by pressing the launch button as we do now